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NORTHBRIDGE, Mass. – A $76,000 feasibility study conducted by HKT Architects to redevelop the Department of Public Works on Fletcher Street, and the $8 million estimate that resulted, will likely be shelved.
There doesn’t appear to be an “appetite’’ by the Board of Selectmen or taxpayers to pay $8 million for a DPW facility, said Building, Planning and Construction Committee member Patrick Moynihan.
Some of the information in that feasibility study, however – specifically, a detailed list of costs provided by an HKT estimator – may help DPW Director James Shuris with a new task assigned to him by the BPCC at its meeting Thursday night.
Shuris has been asked to estimate the cost to retrofit existing buildings – one on Douglas Road and another on Linwood Avenue – both of which are for sale and a size that fits the DPW's needs.
The BPCC also is taking another look at a plan designed by registered structural engineer Neal Mitchell for the waste water treatment plant on Providence Road.
Mitchell has said his design could be built for $2.1 million. He will be asked to provide a detailed list of costs to prove the $2.1 million figure is feasible. If he can’t, that proposal will also be shelved.
All three proposals could meet the needs of the DPW, Shuris said.
BPCC member Tim Doiron said it appears voters want to spend no more than $2 million for a DPW facility.
Shuris said he is confident the building on Douglas Road – the former Old Colony Printing – could be purchased and converted into a DPW building for close to the $2-$2.5 million mark. If the DPW moves to Douglas Road, its winter operations would remain on Fletcher Street.
He said he doesn’t have enough information yet on the Linwood Avenue building and could not comment on a cost estimate.
The town is seeking requests for proposals for a DPW facility, and those bids will be opened on Sept. 28.
In the meantime, Shuris will estimate costs and bring that information to the Board of Selectmen. The board could then choose to support a BPCC request to pay for a professional estimate so firm costs can be brought before voters at the Fall Annual Town Meeting on Oct. 23.
The BPCC meets again on Sept. 13.
Comments (29)
WOW someone finally woke up to the fact that the old director was good at putting band aids on everything, he kept you all amused by his power point cartoons.
Icecat,
I shall give you the benefit of doubt that you may not know, a lot of the issues the former DPW Director faced on the daily basis's while working for the Town.
"Some Say",
"You never really know a person until you stand in their shoes and walk around in them"
The former DPW Director in the opinion of many tried to do 'Mission Impossible' for the Town on a redundant level funded budget. Some may have not liked that he did not always 'sugar coat' his opinions, or tell people always what they wanted hear.
Many have more respect for a man that tried his best on daily basis's, dealing with significant personal and work place 'adversity'. Then the potential Bureaucrats that level funded his budget redundantly, then said nothing or came to his defense. Plus as suggestive taxpayers may have criticized him for not performing miracles for the Town. Plus also not knowing all facets of certain DPW issues, thus potentially bantering about incompetent terminology for some unknowing that may or may not listen.
Juggy like what just a guy said and many more have said, He was a phony, he was the one that called the tribune and news papers when he had a mild heart attack just to say poor me and he gave himself the retirement pa.rty at town hall, he paid for the food WHY because no one else was going to
icecat,
Hopefully we can agree that their is usually two side's to every story.
Maybe he decided to pay for the food, because a Town that would not vote for a new DPW, Salt-Shed, Wash-Bay, PWRR Crossing Fix, using 44E, in 2010 at the WWTPlant site. That would have only cost the Taxpayers $20.00 a year for approx 25 year's may be pretty destitute. :D
Juggy,
I do know. Don't blame budgets, don't blame the people under him and don't place so much blame in the people over him. He was in over his head and tread water for far too long. Plain and simple he was not an effective manager of either people or situations.
The town was well served by his retirement. Onward and upward!!!
Hey Guy,
I recall not to long ago, at a BOS Meeting, the present DPW thanked the former DPW Director a #100 'Thank You's,' for doing 98% of the comprehensive work on the reconstruction and repaving of Purgatory Rd for him, correct?
I think most people understand, their may be two sides to every story.
I will leave it at that for the time being. :)
One project like Purgatory isn't much to rave about. He was here for nearly 18 years. Name another significant project that truly benefited the Town he did that was solely his responsibility? How many years has Sutton St. languished? I know that part of it has to do with the State but really, how much did he push that agenda?
Mr. Shuris has been here a short period of time and has developed and implemented a sound road rehab program. He has pushed the DPW facility project through only to be stymied by "tightwads". In spite of being stonewalled there he appears to have his head down working on alternate solutions.
You always say "lets agree to disagree"...............now it's "I will leave it at that for the time being. :)". It's your way of admitting, you got nothing left.
Hey Guy,
The former DPW Director was able to make do with his significant 'insufficient' annual Budget, for 18 years. Many may say that's a 'miracle' just in itself. :D
If you have the Funding, Money, you can get things accomplished., correct?
Some may feel the present approach may be using to much of our Chap 90 reimbursement reserves from the State for our roads improvement plan. If the Town may have a possible 'catastrophic incident' with our ancient infrastructure, potentially effecting the roads. Plus if all our Chap 90 funds are used up, well the Town may be up the creek without a paddle., correct?
If you recall former BOS JMont tried to attain extra money for the roads, but he did not get the support from the Taxpayers, other BOS., correct?
Seems not to long ago the FINCOM Chair supported a 'robust $9 Million Dollars' for the roads rehab, without an Engineering study., correct? The Town then settled on a $5 Million Dollars approach and that was defeated also.,correct?
The Town then accepted an approved an extra $2.5 Million plan combined with bulk reserves of our yearly Chap 90 funding from the State over #5 years., correct?
Some Taxpayer's may be unaware it may take an approx extra $40 Million plus to correct our Road system. I was talking with one other Taxpayer the other day and he thought the Town was 'all set'! When I told him about the $40 million we may still had to go he went 'Bug Eye', thought I was watching a repeat of the Exorcist. :D
He asked me how we may have arrived at this possible 'Witching Hour'? I advised him potentially many years of an underfunded annual DPW Budget. :)
Juggy,
Correct me if I am wrong but the $5 million you speak of was never voted on by the taxpayers. I believe the selectmen had the opinion that they thought it would never fly and they themselves suggested that it be pared down to the $2.5 that was approved. Personally I thought the $5 mill would have passed too.
Years of level funding did not cause Dick to be an unorganized, poor leader and ineffective manager. He did that all on his own.
Guy,
Seem to recall the $5 Million may have been at a past Town Meeting, recall a video presentation. The presentation reflected out of his $1 Million Dollar level funded Annual budget for many, many years, he only had $187,000 to perform all the DPW related road network functional want's of the Town. Kind of like 'Mission Impossible' correct? It may have not passed at that Town Meeting, but I may be wrong. Maybe someone else may know? But I remember that presentation.
Most may agree if you have the proper funding it is a lot more palitable to accomplish the mission of an agency.
For those that may feel his $1 Million Dollar level funded budget for so many years may have been acceptable, those may find other opinion's or possible reason's to back up that potential 'folly.'
Guy, it obvious his $1 Million Dollar budget was 'insufficent', if the not to long ago an Independent Study on the Roads summed up the cost to repair our road network was approx $50 Million Dollars. correct?
Guy, I know. :) He twisted the arm's of the author of the study to come out with that possible manipulated results as you may have potentially said in the past. :)
Juggy,
Any level funding in a municipality year after year indicates that the municipality is getting less and less for its annual expenditure as inflation of any products or services purchased cost more. Examples: Gasoline, Parts, Maintenance Products, etc... without "maybees", "probablies" etc...
You may wish to look at any municipal school without any non capital building project budget, as an example.
In any bussiness, a "level funded annual budget" indicates "trouble ahead". There is no "profit" or "savings" in municipal finance only "expenses" for sevices. A municipality has no "savings account" only "emergency funding". A municipality must "pay its way" or "go bankrupt".
Waiting for "Granfather to die" and "will" the municipality a gift is an expectation that is short lived as he is spending all his capital.
upso,
Good point but you forgot the Town can either find savings in its present Budget, or increase it's revenue's, correct?
Northbridge is very lucky it receives almost half it's annual operating Budget from the State, correct?
upso, you are WRONG on our Schools they received a 7.5% increase in State Chap 70 aid in FY2013. Up just over $1 Million Dollars from FY2012, please do your Homework.
One easy suggestion from the former BOS Chair was to give a small bonus for those Town Employee's that may go on their spouse Health Insurance, correct? Some Town's give a $500.00 dollar bonus to those type individual's around the Holiday's.
Could save the Town approx $14,000- $16,000 per person a year, that goes on their spouse's Health Insurance correct?
One of the many easy saving Tips for the Town, offset some level funding, correct? If it does not wish to increase Taxes.
Juggy,
Your response indicates what we said is correct.
upso,
I read your comment quickly thought your School comment, related to something else.
Plus usually you do not agree with me.
Juggy,
As you know it is a right to give an opinion.
If you interpret this opinion as dissagreement rather than an example of an opinion it is your right.
People can spin a $2 million +/- dollar project that the WWTP (or any other location other than Fletcher) anyway they want.
The cold hard fact of it is that with out the following any number out there is ficticious. Keep in mind that when I say this I'm not saying anything about the Mitchell Groups numbers.
The reality is that the cost to clean-up Fletcher St. is a true cost of any other proposed project and should be included in any $ tag put forth to the voters. Also if it goes to the WWTP site any price put forth to the voters should also include the cost of the new driveway and the upgrade of the RR Xing. It too is a true cost associated with putting the DPW facility down at the WWTP site. It may not be required by the P&W RR but it is something that will likely be needed as a result of the additional traffic in and out of that location. If it goes to a currently privately owned site the loss of future taxes needs to be factored in as a cost as well.
I am amazed at how that all of a sudden has become a non issue to make numbers conform to a preconceived notion of what the voters will approve.
Guy,
I am very confident CPN and our Excellent Town Planner working in harmony, may be able to attain Brownfield Grants, and other Federal/State Grants to clean up Fletcher Street so that may not be a full consideration.
I think one member of the BOS spoke with PWRR Safety Eng., and the RR would help us with the RR Crossing with almost new used Crossing Equipment at an approx price of $250,000 dollars, if correct. Not sure of the price to correct the entrance road may be approx $100,000 dollars?
Guy, is the WWTPlant now your default choice, because the Fletcher Street proposal is in the out bin?
Juggy,
May, should, possibly, etc..................
Until you have cash money or a signed agreement in hand every penny associated with clean-up should be accounted for in any proposal put forth to voters.
My #1 pick is still Fletcher St. with HKT's design.
Guy,
Hard to give a rough or a true 'estiminate' on Fletcher Street clean up, correct? Am I correct in saying maybe HKT may have not been able to even provide a complete estiminate?
A quick cursory review, from their possible proposal may appear most of the area would be paved over? That may not be to costly?
Plus we do not know if we may be able to attain Brownfield Grants, or other State/Federal Grants, or other economical means of cleaning up the site, correct? Hard to figure out even a possible true estiminate to the Town for complete or Blue Plate special? My confidence level is high in our Town Planner that he may be able to attain some possible Grants.
I may have a possible friend that may know a possible Eng. E., Consulting Firm in S. Lancaster. I may run it by that person and maybe see what they may think on a possible clean up estiminate, or any other possible thoughts. They say my potential friend may have a 'Juda's Eye' on potentially Envior Clen up projects possible costs.
May I be correct the BPCC may only be considering three locations according to the Article?
Juggy,
My suspicion is that with new construction at Fletcher St that it shouldn't be too difficult to estimate what will be needed. Seeing as the site use is not being changed my understanding is that the level of clean-up is not as intensive or as stringent as if it were to have a converted use proposal going forward instead.
It should be very easy to do some calcs on all necessary cut & fills to determine the volume of soil that needs to be dealt with. I also believe that there was some fairly extensive soil testing done down there over the years. They must have a pretty good understanding of the level of contamination that they will be dealing with
From what I believe has been proposed for down there it seems as though a large majority would basically just be filling/capping of the existing areas. The fill is needed to raise the area up and out of the floodplain and yes quite a bit of it would either be paved or seeded over.
Juggy, do you ever read what you type before you hit the POST button?
Plus we do not know if we may be able to attain Brownfield Grants, or other State/Federal Grants, or other economical means of cleaning up the site, correct? Hard to figure out even a possible true estiminate to the Town for complete or Blue Plate special? My confidence level is high in our Town Planner that he may be able to attain some possible Grants.
"I may have a possible friend that may know a possible Eng(ineer) I may run it by that person and maybe see what they may think on a possible clean up estiminate, or any other possible thoughts. They say my potential friend may have a 'Juda's Eye' on potentially Envior Clen up projects possible costs."
Guy,
Put a $1.8 Million Dollar Steel Prefabricated Building, with a "Warranty", new Salt-Shed, Wash Bay, using 44E. Plus fixing the PWRR Crossing, and a new access road at the WWTPlant Providence Road site, and "We Are Good To Go"! :D
Eventually going to have the Fix the 'Town RR Crossing' anyways.,correct?
Town attain's Grants, Brownfield Grants, for the Clean Up of Fletcher Street, plus use a small amount of the early High School payoff funds maybe also? As you may offer an opinion on the possible clean up doctrine the Town may have to follow.
The problem with any idea for the new D.P.W. is that the ELDERS and the YUPPIES would rather hoard their money away and continue to complain about roads and parks and sidewalks not being taken care of, but yet if the mere mention of tax money being spent is discussed then GOD FORBID any of us taxe payers have to go with out! Maybe US TAX PAYERS that want to see the D.P.W. and it's under appreciated, under paid, over loaded employees demand that certain roads and developments don't get accepted! I for one if needed support Mr. Shuris and his employees and would have no problem paying 5,10,15,or even twenty million! or even 10,20,30,40, or 50cents a day!!
gusjr,
I have a feeling P.T. Barnum and Baily may like your view at the DPW Building process. By any chance may you be the type that may be living on a Trust type allotment?
The questions we may need to ask is why has our DPW been level funded at $1 Million Dollar's for untold years? May be the real reason our Roads, etc,etc, may be way behind the Eight Ball?
Most feel Mr. Mitchell's plan is the best approach, hop on board the Train we may have a stop in the vicinity of seven Main, street.
Maybe considering the other two plans absent of Abutters Concern's, and the many, many, years of Prop Tax, Water and Sewer, extensive revenues for the Town may not be using due diligence in my opinion.
Heck we may even have a first class seat for, 'Just A Guy'.
WOW someone finally woke up to the fact that the old director was good at putting band aids on everything, he kept you all amused by his power point cartoons.
Hey Icecat,
He had to use Band- Aids because maybe the Bureaucrats in charge may not have giving him a proper Annual Budget for so many, many years. Plus it may still be true for today also, an annual Budget near to $2 Million Dollars may be more reasonable in the opinion of many.
Myself and a lot of Taxpayers like his solid presentation out of his non robust many, many, years of a $1 Million Dollar level budget. The DPW only had $187, 000 to do the Encyclopedia of Road and Infrastructure Maintenance for the Town, insufficent, correct?
According to the Independent study that was prepared a few years ago for the costs to fix our Road's, plus with the recent new Taxpayer money spent. We may only have $40-$45 Million to go...lol :D
To bad the Bureaucrats may have level funded the DPW Budget for so many years, I think they may still be at $1 Million Dollars today also. That suggestive $40-$45 Million cost to correct our roads may have been a lot less, if the former DPW Director had a proper inflation indexed budget, correct?
In defense of Mr. Mitchell, we do not believe that he has ever held himself out to be an Architect.
He does hold himself out as being an Engineer and we suspect that that he holds a registration as a Structural Engineer at least in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts if not in other states or countries if reqiured for his professional work.
Juggy,
Do you think that when Kennedy tasked others with going to the Moon that he saddled them with an unreasonable budget?
Do you think that he told them specifics about how they should accomplish the task?
Mr. Shuris was tasked with spec'ing out the needs of his department. He met with his "teamates" and they layed out what they needed to accomplish the tasks they are charged with carrying out. This group knew going in from the beginning that they were on a tight budget and I for one believe that they were very reasonable with their choices.
The $8 million isn't unreasonable...................it's everyones preconceived notion that it should cost no more than $2 million that's unreasonable.
For crying out loud..........................it's .28 cents a freaking day. Let's give the DPW what they want and deserve. Let's do a project that all of the Town of Northbridge can be proud of.
I want to see the same scrutinty put to the next School building/expansion project that has been put upon HKT's Fletcher St. proposal.
I'm going to start now by planting the idea in peoples head that the next new school need not cost more than $3.2 million dollars.
Hey Guy, Can We Talk?
Q:Do you think that when Kennedy tasked others with going to the Moon that he saddled them with an unreasonable budget?
A: It was a different era Economically for United States the 'Greatest Generation' was in charge, not the potential suggestive juveniles type that we may have in both Political Party's in my opinion of recent years. Plus we all worked together as a Nation to make hard changes with untold sacrifices', not like today the potential 1% and the 99%.
Q: Do you think that he told them specifics about how they should accomplish the task?
A: NASA was a Federal Agency not Private, with not only Congressional over site, but also NASA's Inspector General, plus this Nation's GAO also monitored the Apollo Moon program. Again the Greatest Generation was in charge those that survived this Nation's Great Depression, and defeated the Axis Powers in WWII.
'Strange' the BPCC in 2010 met extensively with the former DPW Director examined everything with a Judas eye. Their square footage to meet the DPW's future need's #13000 sq.ft, Vs the new #19000 square feet? May it not be common in the possible Government world to ask for the sky? Knowing that their may be some reductions from the Taxpayer's and theTown over site process? May the Mitchell plan be more "space efficient," maybe something for all to consider Guy, correct?
"Strange' do not recall it ever being mentioned that HKT met with the Mitchell proponent's to discuss sq.ft., and other differences of both proposals? If so I stand corrected. 'Strange' seem to recall the DPW Director may have said if the WWTPlant Site was less costly, they were going to do a #360 and move in the WWTPlant direction? What happened?
Plus from my understanding if things have not changed is not the Town Manager the Chief Fiscal Officer for the Town, not the DPW Director? The new DPW Director may want a Vanderbilt Mansion, but may it not be the Town Manager's job to provide over site on what the Town may be able to afford, and what is best for the Town financially for the future, under the Town Charter?
The $8-$9 Million Dollars is unreasonable if you can attain something that is also viable for approx $1.8 Million Dollars, correct?
Are you saying other Towns that have used the Steel Building Company in Sutton to build their DPW or other Municipal facilities, they are not proud of what they achieved for their Taxpayers? I think not?
Guy Comment: I want to see the same scrutiny put to the next School building/expansion project that has been put upon HKT's Fletcher St. proposal.
You like to compare fruit Guy, would not the Town receive a suggestive reimbursement from the State's School Building Fund for a possible School building or renovation? Like the High School? Was not the High School 80%, an apple and a pear Guy, no reimbursement for a DPW? correct?
Guy, before you may plant any idea's on the Schools may I suggest you consider the State's School Building reimbursement advantages for the Town.
DPW:
"Strange' ?
("Mitchell has said his design could be built for $2.1 million. He will be asked to provide a detailed list of costs to prove the $2.1 million figure is feasible. If he can’t, that proposal will also be shelved.")
Did not the 2010 BPCC already conference this out in the Fall of 2010? A similar plan that our Three Senior BOS, Town Manager, Town Counsel, Former DPW Director, Fall 2010 BPCC, Half the 2010 FINCOM supported for the Fall 2010 Town Meeting?
Plus as 'Just A Guy' has also mentioned the Town/BPCC may also have to figure in the significant loss of Property Tax, Water & Sewer Fee's Income, to the Town at the Douglas Road and Linwood potential site's. Plus if the Town/BPCC may decide on the Douglas Road option those factors may be added or compounded to the $2.5 Million Dollar's conservative estimate mentioned in the article. Can this Town loose any potential extra Property Tax income I think we may all know that answer?
The WWTPlant also make sense it may be just a matter of possible time that the Town may receive potential communication from a possible authoritative entity to correct it's RR Crossing at the WWTPlant Site? Plus if corrected may it also keep the Town Municipal Liability Insurance premiums in possible check also?
Surely if Municipality's like Upton, Uxbridge, and other Municipality's across the Commonwealth can build the same type of building's as Mr. Mitchell's., 'why not Northbridge'? Plus other Municipality's have used 44E, as our Town Counsel confirmed in a written document in the Fall of 2010 to our Town Manager.
Plus it also makes sense a new Steel Prefabricated Building like from the Company in Sutton, like the former BOS suggested or similar would have a "Warranty" that the Town and Taxpayers would benefit from.
As President Kennedy said to this Nation in 1963, for those that remember;
“We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things. "Not because they are easy", but because they are hard.”
May we have lost confidence in our own ability as a Town to build a simple Steel building, as so many other similar Town's to Northbridge have built?
If the answer to that question may be yes, then have we not only failed ourselves, the American Spirit, and the traditions of the 'Greatest Generation' which for some of us we are sons and daughters of?